The Hidden Asset Every Building Owner Should Own

Bill Douglas: Foreign.

Drew Hall: Welcome back to the Peak Property Performance Podcast. I'm your co host, Drew Hull. I'm here with Bill Douglas today. And before Bill steps in here, let's talk about today's theme, the hidden asset that every building owner should own. And you can.

Bill Douglas: And you do. Maybe you do.

Drew Hall: You might. Yeah, exactly. Most might. Exactly. Every. Every building owner can. So before we get started, I just want to remind our listeners to like, share, subscribe. I like the way that one podcaster puts it that I follow.

Drew Hall: He says, follow me everywhere except in real life. I like that. But this is how we're spreading the word on the peak property performance movement and changing an industry. And if you think that you'd provide value as a guest here, we welcome CRE thought leaders from all stages of ownership, operation. I mean, even, you know, maybe like corporate tenancy or something like that. We, we enjoy these kinds of stories. It's all about ultimately and wins because there's so many of them out there. And we really enjoy those conversations and they work well on the podcast.

Drew Hall: So, yeah, please reach out to us via peak propertyperformance.com is a great way to do it, or you can obviously find us on LinkedIn as well. So, Bill Douglas, welcome.

Bill Douglas: Hey, it's always a pleasure to be here. And along that same line, Drew, I was interviewing somebody for the podcast to be a future guest this morning and I basically said it's a platform where we share wins and losses and wants and strategy about data and digital. We're not selling anything. This is meant to be a platform to elevate the industry.

Drew Hall: So I love it.

Bill Douglas: I love it. Anybody that wants to share stories to hop on the show with us.

Drew Hall: Yeah, personally, as someone who doesn't like salesy things in life, period, I like it. I, I enjoy the conversations and the

Bill Douglas: more real world experience share podcasts. So come share your experiences and help others in the industry. That's my point.

Drew Hall: Absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree. All right, well, yeah, I mean, kind of going back to the idea of this theme for today, like we teased it at the top here. What is that hidden asset that, that every building owner should own and can own? Every single building owner. And of course, anybody who's heard maybe one episode of us before knows what we're talking about. It is that digital infrastructure. So today we're going to decode a little bit about that because, I mean, it was literally this week. It was this week I was talking with someone who I've known a long time who was very good in sales actually, and in technical sales, and they admitted that they weren't totally grasping this idea of infrastructure.

Drew Hall: I'm like, sweet. Okay, let's step back for a second. And I know something you do grasp is a physical infrastructure, right? Yes. I mean, everybody who's been on site, practically anywhere can grasp a physical infrastructure. So I feel like that's a good place to kind of start and then shift, like, whoa, interesting. Okay, Physical infrastructure. It's easy. We could, all of us who are talking and listening or watching this podcast along the way could hop on a plane and go to a building and walk into a closet and point to cables and point to hardware and point to racks and point to lights that are flashing and say, hey, something's doing something.

Bill Douglas: Well, let's. Let's hop off for a second. That is part of the digital infrastructure. Those lights and those cables.

Drew Hall: It's true.

Bill Douglas: Tangible part, right? That's the network, the devices, the things that you can touch. But what about all the other things included that you can't touch?

Drew Hall: No, that's what I'm saying is I feel like for people like this guy I was talking to who are having a hard time grasping digital, I feel like it helps to start with the physical because the physical leads to the digital. You couldn't have a digital infrastructure if you didn't also have a physical. But I always say that the physical is a means to an end. It's important. It's an important means, but you just, you have to do it. You know, you have to have that physical infrastructure in order to get the connectivity so that you can operate this holistic thing that we constantly talk to as the digital infrastructure. So that's why I think that works well if someone needs it to kind of pull back and just think in terms of bolts. Physical, you can touch it.

Drew Hall: You touch the corner.

Bill Douglas: I like to say you're used to you being a commercial real estate owner operator. Used to sticks and bricks and glass and, you know, facades and signs and landscaping and carpet and, you know, open space and pools and amenities and things like that. Those are assets that you invested in. Countertops, dishwashers. If you're in multifamily invested in. I think the industry has traditionally thought about technology and digital as an expense. Like, it's a pain in the neck. It's something I have to do only because tenants make me do it.

Bill Douglas: I have to do it, and yada, yada, yada, instead of thinking about it as an investment, that should generate a return. So. And it. Digital infrastructure is a broad category, but it's largely ignored.

Drew Hall: Well, and it's good, too, because, you know, like the pieces of furniture and things like that, they don't rely on anything. You know, you could stick a carpet, you could stick a rug or a couch anywhere in a campus, and it's going to work because somebody put a little design behind it, that's great. But it operates as an independent thing. It achieves a purpose. Somebody would say we wanted to make it look welcoming or feel a certain way. It's a vibe, whatever. So it's. It's more.

Drew Hall: I mean, truly tangible, obviously, but it's more, I feel like a direct impact than boring old physical infrastructure that connects things. But it leads to this way more important thing that it's. You want to. Right. Size that thing, that digital infrastructure thing, and it's going to bring back lots and lots of value that we constantly talk about here. So there is a level of abstraction. I mean, it is, I guess, ultimately a level of abstraction a bit with the digital infrastructure, but it doesn't have to be.

Bill Douglas: It's not really that abstract, you know, digital infrastructure. For listeners that haven't heard us explain it. And I'm sorry for the ones that have. It's the systems. It's the physical systems, the racks, the devices, it's the sensors that are out there, those cameras, the, I don't know, the lighting sensors, the thermostats, for instance. That's all part of your digital infrastructure. Access controls, blank controls, whatever system you have to control, elevator controls, air controls, et cetera, et cetera, the sensors. And then just equally as important is the data that those.

Drew Hall: Absolutely, yeah.

Bill Douglas: It's super powerful. And to give you. You had an example with a salesperson, Mike. Well, we had another. A listener of the show two weeks ago sent in a form and said, I'd like to do a digital review with you. So we did one and he came prepared and said, we have a converged network in the building. We have a really awesome visual infrastructure. And I said, I am excited to see this.

Bill Douglas: Like, show it to me. Like, I didn't question it at all. I was like, super. I love it when we say to somebody, we have no value to present. So I thought it was going to be one of those calls, the network he sent us, and you've seen it was the WI FI network and that was it, right? And I said, well, who owns it? He goes, well, we do. And I said, well, this blank ISP on the bottom left corner, it's their drawing. So can you go pull that contract up real quick and see who owns it. And within five minutes he came back and he said, wow, they gave us the cable, we installed it, we installed all the sensors, they own it, we can't touch it, we can't use it, and it's theirs for life until they abandon it.

Bill Douglas: Okay, so you said you had a converged network. Let's talk about where your access controls are, where your lighting controls. And I went down all that list and he said, oh, we have all those. I just don't know where they are and how they connect. And at the end of an hour he said, this was brutally painful. I'm sorry I wasted your time. I said, you didn't waste our time. We are here to educate people.

Bill Douglas: And you, the converged digital infrastructure is still possible. Even if you have to leave that one alone, you can still build it for all the other systems. And he said, okay, well let me go figure out where those are and where the network maps are and where the data is and we'll come back to you. And then I want to do that. So they're going to figure out what to do with the one that they don't own and then the ones that they do and figure out where the data is. So it was a great experience. And this, it's not even a customer, but they are so much better off just from having the conversation. So put it in context that that's what digital infrastructure is like you, you may be able to touch it, you may be able to see it, but a lot of times you can't.

Drew Hall: Yeah, it's funny, it's, it's drawing to my mind. My 16 year old son is super excited about his truck because it's loud, the rumbly and powerful and he thinks it's amazing. And here's why I feel like this is a similar thing, because to his 16 year old mind, he's arrived. You know, this truck is not new, it's over a decade old. But in my mind I'm like, I'm trying to tell him, like, listen, the more you can drive it like your grandmother, the longer this is going to last you and the less you're going to have to spend on it. To be fair, I probably thought like he did when I was 16 also, but I feel like there's a similarity there in understanding holistically, like the system, the way that it works. When you drive your truck, for instance. Yeah, it's fun to have it rumble and rev and 4500rpm sounds amazing with this extra muffler blah, blah.

Drew Hall: But in reality, when you look at the larger system, you're realizing if you can. If you can take this in, you're realizing that you're putting more stress and strain on physical components that are going to wear down and cost you more money. So I feel like it ties in with what we're talking about with digital infrastructure, where it's like, you know, if we were to grab people again, fly into a facility, and we badge in and we step inside the lobby and we just think for a moment, we're like, how did we just badge in? How did that work? Why did that work? Did that talk, though? That talked to a system?

Bill Douglas: Ah.

Drew Hall: Is that system connected? Where is that system connected? Is it connected to network A or Network 7, Network J? Understanding all of those intricacies, it's important. You got to get down to the intricacies ultimately, in order to, you know, rifle through it and make sure that you're not paying for things you don't need. Redundancies are only there if you designed them specifically to be in there. Sometimes they're good. Oftentimes they're not. So it's funny because that's where my mind went to. I feel like there's some similarities there to instead of just kind of being like, bam, I'm going to solve this thing right now. My truck needs to rumble versus, like, okay, my truck can rumble.

Drew Hall: But I also want to think about it in terms of the longer term. I'm only going to rev it to 3500 because I think I want this thing to last a few years longer or, you know what I'm saying, like maintaining it, taking care of it, understanding more holistically the system that we're talking

Bill Douglas: about, along the same analogy of the sons with trucks and cars, because I have two sons older than yours. But as soon as they realized that they were going to have to pay for their tires and do the brake jobs themselves, the driving changed. So that's the same analogy for doing a digital infrastructure review. This gentleman did one and all of a sudden realized, oh, wait a second, I don't understand or I don't know what, I don't know. And then he came back about a week later and said, I'm sorry that we gave away that piece of our digital infrastructure to this isp. Now let's come up with a strategy to get control of everything else and figure out when and if we want to change this. This one network. Maybe we don't.

Bill Douglas: Maybe we do. That's a whole separate Conversation in the weeds changed the brakes himself. And all of a sudden he realized, okay, this is not terrible. This is something we can fix over time with a strategy versus just ignoring it. Don't give away what is yours. And I absolutely. Specifically speaking about data and the networks, like, how many times are you paying for networks? How many times are you paying for redundant systems? Where is your data? Are you using your data? So lather, rinse, repeat. We talk about that a lot on the show.

Bill Douglas: But I just wanted to share some of these experiences because we've had these conversations since the last time we did Just Two of Us episode. So.

Drew Hall: Yeah, well. And I think, you know, like in this idea of why do owners do this? Why don't they recognize the digital infrastructure as an asset? You know, some of this I feel like I've said before, but there's definitely a component of time, time, time, time. There's so many things that happen in the process of getting a building. Let's just say it's a, it's a greenfield. There's so many things that happen in that, in that construction process. And you know, obviously if some provider comes your way and says, hey, we're going to pay for this cable plant, you don't even have to pay for it. That's. That feels awesome.

Drew Hall: Like, my gosh, this is a few hundred thousand dollars worth of a cable plant. Right. How could this be a bad idea? But that's what I'm saying is that's a, that's a piece of a system.

Bill Douglas: You just gave it away. That's right. And to replace it, this gentleman has seven other networks in his building and the cost for that was much more than the number you just threw out.

Drew Hall: Absolutely. Yeah.

Bill Douglas: Drew, just yesterday, I don't even think I told you about this. I was interviewed by Gist, the Government Institute for Science and Technology, and they are through ASU using their graduate program. They're interviewing people in the commercial real estate space to see why technology is so slowly adopted, particularly in the built environment, but not. And they're doing built environment and doing property management. I advised him that maybe there's a gap in the middle, but those two. So we talked specifically about how did this happen or how does this happen? And he had already interviewed 35 other people and he didn't share with me the results until I shared my opinion. So I'm not going to share my opinion. I'll share my results.

Bill Douglas: His results, excuse me, from the 35. And that is just. Architects are used to doing a certain way. Contractors Are used to doing a certain way. And none of that concluded technology, because before technology was just Internet. Before that, before Internet, there was no technology. There was buildings, you know, clean, cool air, you know, hot and cold water, get, get them out of the building. And that was it.

Bill Douglas: There was really no technology. The thermostats were manual. And then over time, it became technology became Internet. And now it's smart thermostats, it's cameras, it's access controls, it's parking, it's lighting, it's EV charging, it's tenant WI fi, you know, it's. It's connectivity, wired and wi fi and cellular for all your systems. The people that are doing the design hand the design like architects do a legitimate design. The building engineer designs it not to fall down on how to make it right. And the contractor has to go build it.

Bill Douglas: The digital infrastructure was never architected like the physical infrastructure. Why don't you architect the digital. And then they hand it down and then the 90 days from going live, this is what gist is telling me when I know it to be true. But it's their words, so it was validating. 90 days from going live, the property manager shows up and they're like, wow, we need this system and we need those sensors and we need the. Oh, by the way, this code needs an elevator. I mean, an emergency phone by the pool, right? And then elevator needs a line to work and it has to be to this code. And you know, fire systems are taken care of, but that's it.

Bill Douglas: The rest of the digital bag and then that building is forever hurting and lagging. Building is sold and the buyer never bothered to figure out what was there digitally. They hired an engineer to go inspect it, to physically inspect it. Is this going to fall down? You know, does this have water leaks? Is there foundation issues, et cetera, et cetera. Do I need to fix that crack in the parking deck? Is it structural? But they never do that with digital. That's the asset we're talking about. That's the hidden asset that's so incredibly valuable that's so often ignored.

Drew Hall: Yeah, definitely. Well, and there's multiple ways obviously that it can go wrong. You know, like again, thinking, thinking about it as a system, I think is the right way to do it. Yes. You have to then subsequently break it down and say, what are all the components of the system? And it can get boring to some. It can get like eye glaze over. You know, your eyes might glaze over kind of thing. But it's critically important.

Drew Hall: It's critically Important. I'm also thinking about kind of the. Another angle here is like, who, who is it? Which team is it? Which vendor is it that you have that's designing where you place things in the building, like your quote unquote data closets, where are they? How many are there? What, like we talk about this a little bit in the book, I think, I think in this category maybe, but this, the notion of what are the motivations behind the team or the person or whatever that's conducting that. Because you know right as well as I do that sometimes you can see those motivations based on, oh, the thing we put together. Here's the cost of that thing. Like, whoa, that's not the right size. That's a big ticket, but it's not the right size. It's not designed properly.

Drew Hall: And of course, that is all physical infrastructure that ultimately your digital infrastructure will rely upon. So it's a building block thing. If you, if it's janky, if it's, if it's a little, if it's off at the base, it's going to be off as you continue to build on to it, as you continue to snap digital infrastructure in and add digital infrastructure moves, adds changes of digital infrastructure on top of that physical. But you got to have a good foundation like so many other things in life, or it doesn't work well.

Bill Douglas: Another analogy that came out, I was on Kevin Choquette's podcast, Phydan Capital, and he said, you know, because he raises capital for developers in the multifamily space, so he knows the build side. He goes, these dudes would never put in four or five or six different plumbing systems. They would never put in multiple electrical systems. But I see all the time that they have multiple networks. Why is that? So we went round to the root cause and it's not intentional. It's because nobody owns it. It's being ignored in the middle, like, and it's grossly expensive not just to build, but to maintain. So you wouldn't have multiple delivery systems for your utilities.

Bill Douglas: This is another utility, right? It's the fourth or fifth utility. Call it what you want. How come you don't design it and manage it like that? I mean, a tremendous asset. It will drastically reduce your opex. You can significantly reduce your capex if you're building, if you're just trading the building. We strongly encourage you to make digital review part of your due diligence Prior to buying a property. Know what you need to know. Do it before you buy it.

Bill Douglas: You can factor the price to Fix anything into the transaction so you're not eating it afterwards, your property manager going to love you for it.

Drew Hall: I think that's a great, great comparison. Again, I mean, like, fifth utility sounds great, makes sense. But I think even more detailed support of this idea of it being a fifth utility is exactly what you were just saying. Like, you know, if you add a few hundred thousand square feet to an existing structure. Let's take power. What you got. You have enough power to snap in another circuit onto the main board. Cool.

Drew Hall: A few 20, 30 more amps. Nice. You snapped it onto the main. So you connect it back to the main. Let's take plumbing. Oh, you need a sink, you need to drain, you need a whatever for the plumbing. Did you install a new system? No, you didn't. You tied it back to the main.

Drew Hall: So it's the exact same thing on the digital side. You tie it back to the main. Oh, you have a new. You have a new system, whatever it is. Door access, whatever it is, thermostats. You tie it back to the main. You don't bring in a brand new system.

Bill Douglas: So about that client in Charlotte, a large apartment complex, they decided to do smart thermostats. And they were elated because the thermostat vendor was and door locks and thermostats was selling them quoted hubs and repeaters and they didn't need them. Just send us that. We'll make sure it works on your system in our lab, they didn't need it. So not only did they rip the cost out, they ripped, interrupting all of the tenants to put in these hubs and repeaters. And then they just walked down the hall and plugged them in as they needed. That was just simple, easy peasy. One digital infrastructure in the building.

Bill Douglas: It worked. So that that saved them about $150,000 just on hubs and repeaters for. I forget the square foot of the building, but it's 300 units. So that is just one easy example. Like, why can you reduce your duplicate infrastructure?

Drew Hall: Like, yeah, definitely. Absolutely. We just had it happen. In fact, you know, we're recording this on a Friday, so I don't know if this will happen today, but a corporate tenant is kind of right, sizing, correcting some things that have been in place for a few years that came up in an audit where it's exactly like. It' very similar to what, what you just laid out there, Bill. But in this case, it's elevators and which voice services are being leveraged and there's some extraneous there's some extraneous things, to say the least, that are, that are involved here. And here's, here's what we enjoy. We enjoy learning about these details.

Drew Hall: Like, oh, wow, that sounds interesting that. That's in there. How. What, you see a logo that's painted on a piece of hardware that says what? And you pay. What. How long is that? You know what I'm saying? Like, they're kind of discovering this stuff oftentimes. And so you're helping them extract this. Well, it's already in the building.

Drew Hall: Oh, we're overpaying. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, and this was something

Bill Douglas: as mundane to it, you know, all of that. Like, like we push building automation and autonomy here. Like, we try not to make this an AI platform. But everybody in commercial real estate, the buzz is AI all over the world, not just in commercial real estate, but we push AI readiness because we're not going to tell you what to do with AI. And even if you're not doing it right now, you know, in three years, you're going to be, be or two years or three months or five, whatever. It's not going to be an infinite amount of time before you are AI based. You can't build intelligence on infrastructure you don't control. To go back to that example, if you wanted data from that network that you thought was converged and you owned and you found out you didn't, it is useless in your AI strategy.

Bill Douglas: Without a digital infrastructure, you can't really leverage between the systems that are operating on your property. Is each vendor selling you AI tools? Of course they are, and they're legitimate and they're doing it right. You know, your PMS is doing it, your lighting controls are doing it. Blank controls is doing it. They're all doing it. Parking controls down the line, you can't look between them. And if you wanted to replace that vendor, you might be held hostage. Building.

Bill Douglas: I don't mean building as in your physical building, but for you to go derive intelligence on your property, you need to have the digital infrastructure strategy in place. It's data, but the data is worth. We get asked this all the time, Drew, what's this data worth when I have it? Like, so much more than we even know right now. I get, I can give you a litany of examples of what it's worth right now, but that's a fraction of what it is actually worth.

Drew Hall: Yeah, exactly. Well, and I think, you know, not that this is the most important thing, but I think one thing that owners have got to keep in mind Here is that when you think about the whole system holistically and you've got you. You need to make some type of tech connectivity decision in order to support your systems. Let's say your individual systems, it's critically important because number one, you want to drive out costs and number two, you want to crank up that revenue. And of those things happen when you consider your holistic system, let's just say it's all about the campus as a one big system. So you have to be able to know the independent components of those systems, independent individual systems. But you also need to be most critically important thinking about it holistically and yeah, I mean that's where the power is at. You can't just like, you can't skip these steps.

Bill Douglas: We get asked a lot about, especially from owners, how do we evaluate our digital asset or assets? You know, and of course it's in the book. But I don't want to sound like we're selling the book. We, we give, we call it DDI Review Data and Digital Infrastructure Review. We give it away in the book. Right. But we'd be happy to tell you some questions that were very. We almost repeat daily. Right.

Bill Douglas: Who owns the networks? And you're building the. The usual reaction is we do. I was like, go check. Because we have yet to find a building, a commercial real estate building that is multi tenant, that they actually own every network in the building. We own every network in the building. We have not found one yet. If you have that, come on and tell us about it please, because we would love. Because you are definitely a leader in the industry, we would love to have you on the show.

Bill Douglas: When you figure out the network, who owns the devices on the end of it. And then when you figure that out, not just where they are, but is there a map to show it? What about the data that all these things are producing? Are the systems connected to a repository where you get the data or is it just siloed or are they just not connected? We've even seen analog systems. You see TV and there is no data. It's all video and you're paying a ridiculous monthly fee that you don't need anymore. You know, are there duplicate networks? What contracts are around all these? Like, like you brought up earlier. How long have I been paying for this? Why am I paying for the phone example, for instance, you know, you say it's only $300 a month. Yeah, but it was $300 a month for five years. That's a lot.

Bill Douglas: Do that four, five, six times like what about the lighting system we found? When they turned it on, they said $70,000 the next year, like almost 70. And can this support future technologies? Because you need to know that it's part of your capex upgrade plan. If it can't, or maybe you don't want it to, it doesn't have to. But know what you don't know, ask those questions and you can do a digital review yourself. We're not here to sell that. We're here to ask the question of you. Do you know what your digital infrastructure is? Do you know what your. Where your data is and are you interested in using it to make the property operate better? That's the conversation we love to have.

Bill Douglas: I'm sorry, I got in my soapbox. I get passionate about this.

Drew Hall: No, that's good, that's good. I mean, you know, I mean, just some points along the way there, you know, on the duplicate networks thing, you know, I mentioned a little bit ago that redundant can have a positive or negative meaning. That's a perfect example of knowing. Knowing that what you are doing is because it is the right thing to do. Like having redundant ISPs is probably the right thing to do. 2. Maybe two ISPs is the right sweet spot. One is probably not right.

Drew Hall: We've seen properties struggle with that. Where. Oh man, shoot. This is usually a really great isp and then something happens.

Bill Douglas: Maybe it's administrative, but you don't mean ISPs all the way out to the tenant spaces. You mean ISPs in the core of the building?

Drew Hall: Well, both what I'm, I'm saying. To the core of the building. Yes. Which then extends through the digital infrastructure to all tenant spaces everywhere, through, across the entire campus.

Bill Douglas: Yeah, I agree with that.

Drew Hall: Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. I just, I. I think that's a valuable way to do it because this whole process is so physical. I think it just helps to stay as, as much as possible, stay in the physical world and imagine what you see with your eyes and what you know to be true. And then don't just assume that everything is here because it should be here. Right. Everything that's hanging, Everything that's hanging on backer board in one of your data closets, for instance.

Drew Hall: It should be there because it belongs there and it's doing a job that ultimately is giving you data that's, that's allowing you to make decisions not just about that individual system, but about your entire building.

Bill Douglas: Well, the status quo is easy, but every commercial real estate owner out there has succeeded because they did not shy away from something that wasn't easy. You know, it could be the zoning board change, it could be the loan, it could be the, you know, the limited partners. It could be the construction contract or the, you know, I don't know, the. The title agency that when you bought the property, et cetera, et cetera. It's not easy. This is one other thing that it's not terribly hard as far as difficult. It's tedious. It's not easy until it's done, and then it's easy.

Bill Douglas: Like when you could point anything you want to do back to 1. Digital strategy and digital infrastructure. Your property manager is going to love you, your tenants are going to love you, and your partner's going to love you because you're going to make more money. So I just. We encourage people to include digital, just like you would, you know, the sticks and the bricks, everything else we talked about earlier. And you walk in and you can see that beautiful conference room or the. The common areas or the pool or, you know, the dog park or whatever is attached to this building to make it really unique. I think GO should be just as much part of that.

Bill Douglas: I know we're buying it, but, you know, my sons rent places and I see which ones are good and which ones aren't, and makes a big difference to the tenant, too.

Drew Hall: Yeah, exactly. And I mean, truly believe that it is a utility. This connected infrastructure thing is a utility because it really does affect not just how you think the whole system, but also, like, the decisions that you make because of it.

Bill Douglas: In closing, if you're building a property, design it strategically early. The ROI is massive. If you're buying a property, make it part of your due diligence. And if you already own a property, you're going to hold it, do a review, Ask your team to do their own review. Try to find out what you don't know right now. It won't cost you anything, and the upside is huge. That's our takeaway from this show. Sorry, I didn't.

Bill Douglas: Didn't mean to take over there, Drew. But in closing, I think those are three action items I would ask anybody listening to the show to take to heart and go do in their portfolio. Whether you're a property manager, an owner, a lp, a gp, a builder, an architect, whatever, take those three and do it in your own world and see what happens. If you want conversation or help, reach out to me or Drew. We do a lot of these, and they're all pro bono. We're not here to sell our time. If we end up engaging, that's different. But we want to change the industry.

Drew Hall: Yeah, well, and I think too that speaks to the confidence that we have because we see it over and over and over again about the power of what change we can make for you. Like we'll show you something that's going to be so powerful financially and operationally. No doubt.

Bill Douglas: Well, we always do this thing called the extra floor and you get to introduce it. So we didn't do this the last couple shows you and I did. I want to do an extra floor, but not all three questions. So we're just going to pick what is normally the second question. I'm going to let you go first. I'm going to ask you what's one habit or practice that consistently makes you more effective.

Drew Hall: I think there's a few of them, but the one that I think is so interesting is I like to go analog every once in a while. And I just, I just did this earlier today where everything is so at the end of your fingertips and on the screen and you can do so much arranging everything as it goes, solving problems, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes though, and I do this regularly, I would say a few times a week, I just say nope. And I go to the printer and I pull out a blank piece of paper and I put it in front of me and then I just grab my, my pencil and I start working what I was gonna do digitally on the screen. And there's just something tactile, physical. Oh, I smudged my pencil as a left hander. That's the, that's the, the lot that we suffer in life. There's something about that.

Drew Hall: Do I end up taking that and digitizing it? Yes. Could I have gone straight digital? Yes. But for me, I'm not saying this is, this is true for everybody. There's just something, there's some kind of reset that happens with that, that I, that really resonates with me. And I didn't know that for a long, long time. So. But it's something I've realized probably in the last decade, let's say. So it's kind of maybe a little nook and cranny of one, I feel.

Drew Hall: But it's real. It's real. Yeah, exactly. Can't, you can't stay there. But it's good to just like pull back and prove that it still exists. How about yourself? What would you think of for a habit of practice that could. It makes you better?

Bill Douglas: The first 30 minutes I'm awake. I am analog. So I, we didn't plan this folks, but I was going to talk about my first 30 minutes. I used to do a 10-10-10 where I would journal, meditate, you know, and plan. And now I basically say the first 30 minutes of the day I try to get some sunlight in my eyes, you know, to get the circadian rhythm going. That's hard in the winter in Colorado because it's dark until 7:30 and I'm up long before that. But I do not look at a screen for at least the first 30 minutes. And sometimes it ends up being an hour and a half or two hours because I might roll right into the gym.

Bill Douglas: I go to the gym every weekday and at least one on the weekends. And that's a 75 minute thing, right? So if the first 30 minutes my brain is clear and I'm just thinking, I mean, no phone, like I can't look at it. I don't pick it up and answer right away because my day can just go sideways. Spend time talking to Julie over some coffee. I might sit outside if the weather's nice. Sometimes I'll go for a little walk just around the block or something. Maybe I'll do analog and plan. I call it MIT's most important tasks.

Bill Douglas: What are the three I'm going to do today to move me or the business forward? And then before I know it, I may or may not be looking at the screen until 9 o' clock. And I've been up since at least six, so it's. And then I can dive right in. And I haven't been. At the end of the day, I've not been looking at a screen for 10 hours. So because I'm an early bird, so I didn't mean to make it go analog, but that first 30 minutes to me is super precious. I do the same meditation every morning. Some people call it prayer, some people call it meditation.

Bill Douglas: And after that goes sideways and then I start thinking about or having a conversation with, you know, my higher power. I'm being neutral for the audience. But that ritual has been in my, in place for at least a decade. And it was after some really low times in my life and I found that and I've not let go of it. It's been great. We were trying to be vulnerable and there we go. There you go, folks. For all the guests on the show, you're going to get asked questions like this at the end.

Bill Douglas: We call it the extra floor.

Drew Hall: Yeah, it's, it's fun though. I mean, get out of the business

Bill Douglas: instead of just the business or the strategy. All right, well, you started out by saying this. I'll finish. Please, like, subscribe, follow. Forward this to your friends. Forward this to somebody that, if it resonated with you, forward it. You know, somebody that should be on the show. You know, every episode has its own page on the Peak Property Performance website.

Bill Douglas: Those notes are there. If you want to listen to the show, you can. It's on all the major platforms. Just engage, make the conversation better because it's helping everybody. And to those who are engaged already, thank you. We appreciate you and look forward to the next episode.